Ä [21] Internet: MISC.RURAL (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ MISC.RURAL Ä Msg : 6 of 25 + 7 From : Anmar Mirza 1:105/30 Mon 07 Mar 94 18:04 To : All Subj : self-sufficiency ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ From: amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Mirza) In article <1994Mar7.132205.22482@news.weeg.uiowa.edu>, James Meade wrote: >David, > >Your comment on large farmers not having gardens is interesting. > >When I was a boy, we had a garden, apple trees, milk cows, and ate our >own meat (the cripples, not the good stuff, which went to town). > >There were 8 of us and we ate like horses. We raised our stuff to >survive. I can remember my great-grandparents, who operated a large successful farm here in Indiana, pretty much supplying most of their own food from the gardens and the stock. They were dairy farmers and Sunday dinners would be almost all farm raised foods. > >Anyway, I doubt if all foresters saw their own logs, I do :-) though I realize that's not a representative sample... >etc. I do believe that all bankers print their own money, though . And politicians make their own laws... >Times have changed. Lifestyles have changed. That is really the >bottom line, I think. Sadly, it is by and large true. Even though the goal of total self-sufficiency is not a realistic one, and by and large it never has been, that doesn't preclude people from working towards that goal. As has been noted, many larger urban centers are mere days from total collapse should some of the principle services be damaged or unavailable. People in those urban areas become dependant on those services for their very lives. Some people like to live that way, though I personally don't understand it. Rural communities have always had greater resiliency, but it seems like many urbanites don't even try. -- Anmar Mirza #Chief of Tranquility #I thought that they were angels, much EMT-D N9ISY #Base, Lawrence Co. IN #to my surprise, we climbed aboard their Sawyer #Somewhere out on the #starship, we headed for the skies... Networks Tech.#Mirza Ranch. DoD#1143 #Come sail away, come sail away with me --- PC-NNTP/486 1.1 * Origin: Cascade Echomail - Fidonet/Usenet gateway - Beaverton, OR (1:105/30) Ä [21] Internet: MISC.RURAL (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ MISC.RURAL Ä Msg : 7 of 25 - 6 + 20 From : DeeAnna Weed 1:105/30 Tue 08 Mar 94 04:23 To : All Subj : self-sufficiency ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ From: deeweed@iastate.edu (DeeAnna Weed) Dave Beverstock wrote: What about LISA farming? I'm not a farmer myself, but live in a farming community. I read a liitle while ago about a young farmer using this LISA method (Low Input Sustainable Agric.). He was losing too much money with the typical farming methods in use in this area. If anyone is interested in LISA, I recommend a membership in the Practical Farmers of Iowa (PFI) group. PFI supports on-farm research by farmers as well as projects in cooperation with Iowa State University and other organizations. These people are not just talk - they're showing how farmers can cut chemical use and minimize input costs and still get good yields. Membership is $10 per year ($25 for 3 years) Contact Practical Farmers of Iowa 2035 190th St, Boone, IA 50036 -- --- PC-NNTP/486 1.1 * Origin: Cascade Echomail - Fidonet/Usenet gateway - Beaverton, OR (1:105/30) Ä [21] Internet: MISC.RURAL (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ MISC.RURAL Ä Msg : 23 of 25 - 16 + 24 From : David_A._Richards 1:105/30 Sat 05 Mar 94 17:06 To : All Subj : Tillers ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ From: richards@denver.cba.du.edu (David_A._Richards) > > I plan to till old soil and new soil for a few years. I don't mind > > man handling (nothing could be worse that a front tine machine) to > > break up new soil, if I the machine will last loooooong time. > > I value reliability and part availablity most (I think we're going > > to have economic collapse in near future and am concerned for this > > reason). > > Thank you! > Don't you think it's a bit optimistic to count on using a gasoline- > powered tool after economic collapse? Wouldn't a mule, or better yet, > a breeding pair of some other draft animal be a better bet? We are going to have economic collapse; that's a given. But if I owned a farm, I'd much rather stockpile a hundred gallons of gas or so than to pay for feeding extra animals (in this case mules or a whole family of draft animals) during a deep depression! --Dave --- PC-NNTP/486 1.1 * Origin: Cascade Echomail - Fidonet/Usenet gateway - Beaverton, OR (1:105/30) Ä [21] Internet: MISC.RURAL (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ MISC.RURAL Ä Msg : 24 of 25 - 23 From : TOM WAGNER, Wizzard of old Audio/Vi 1:105/30 Wed 09 Mar 94 08:34 To : All Subj : Tillers ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ From: wagner@mala.bc.ca (TOM WAGNER, Wizzard of old Audio/Visual Equipment........Nanaimo Campus) In article , richards@denver.cba.du.edu (David_A._Richards) writes: >> > I plan to till old soil and new soil for a few years. I don't mind >> > man handling (nothing could be worse that a front tine machine) to >> > break up new soil, if I the machine will last loooooong time. >> > I value reliability and part availablity most (I think we're going >> > to have economic collapse in near future and am concerned for this >> > reason). >> > Thank you! > >> Don't you think it's a bit optimistic to count on using a gasoline- >> powered tool after economic collapse? Wouldn't a mule, or better yet, >> a breeding pair of some other draft animal be a better bet? > > We are going to have economic collapse; that's a given. > But if I owned a farm, I'd much rather stockpile a hundred gallons > of gas or so than to pay for feeding extra animals (in this case mules > or a whole family of draft animals) during a deep depression! > > --Dave Lets not forget, during the war the british farmers converted to manure digesters and used the methane gas to run tractors. I can't confirm but I have heard that some areas still use "sh*t power" to this day. I remember it was big during the "hippie era" in this country. My brother in law actually sent of for a conversion kit, consisting of plans and a vacuum powered regulator valve. It seemed to be an easy conversion. -- ____________ ____________ ____ _____ /_____ ____/ / _______ / / \ ,' / / / / / / / / /\ \ ,' ,'/ / / / / / / / / / \ \,' ,' / / / / / / / / / / \ ,' / / / / / /______/ / / / \,' / / /__/ /___________/ /__/ /_/ _____________________________________________________ /____________________________________________________/ Proud owner of a dog, cat, bird, old Tractor and a British Car "If Lucas Electric made guns wars wouldn't start" --- PC-NNTP/486 1.1 * Origin: Cascade Echomail - Fidonet/Usenet gateway - Beaverton, OR (1:105/30)